Comments on: Descendants of John Baines & Sarah Murrell http://ancestorsofcley.com/2009/11/descendants-of-john-baines-sarah-murrell/ Dew, Jary, and associated families of the Norfolk coast; circa 1600s through 1800s Wed, 25 Aug 2010 10:22:22 +0100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Bob Price http://ancestorsofcley.com/2009/11/descendants-of-john-baines-sarah-murrell/comment-page-1/#comment-91 Bob Price Wed, 25 Aug 2010 10:22:22 +0000 http://ancestorsofcley.com/?p=482#comment-91 1) Sarah Murrell bapt 1769 at Necton, BURIED 27.Jan.1771, Necton---could not have married John Baines! 2) Sarah Murrell, also dau. of John & Susannah Murrell bapt. 7 July 1771. neither marriage nor burial found at Necton. There were at least 3 other children of John and Susanna Murrell---John 1773, Susannah, 1775 and William 1778. A jane Murrell was witness at Williams marriage, but she could have been an Aunt. As a further pointer to Mary Tuck being Sarah --Murrell--Baines' mother, there was a Francis Tuck Baines buried 30 Jan. 1838, at Blakeney, aged 17 weeks. I have not found a bapt. anywhere for this child, so cannot place him in any particular Baines family. However, it was normal in the Baines family to give surnames of family members as christian names to newborn children, so I think it fairly conclusive that Mary Tuck was the mother of Sarah Baines The surname Dickason/Dickerson/Dickinson does not appear anywhere in the Baines family as far as I can ascertain. 1) Sarah Murrell bapt 1769 at Necton, BURIED 27.Jan.1771, Necton---could not have married John Baines!
2) Sarah Murrell, also dau. of John & Susannah Murrell bapt. 7 July 1771. neither marriage nor burial found at Necton.
There were at least 3 other children of John and Susanna Murrell---John 1773, Susannah, 1775 and William 1778.
A jane Murrell was witness at Williams marriage, but she could have been an Aunt.
As a further pointer to Mary Tuck being Sarah --Murrell--Baines' mother, there was a Francis Tuck Baines buried 30 Jan. 1838, at Blakeney, aged 17 weeks.
I have not found a bapt. anywhere for this child, so cannot place him in any particular Baines family. However, it was normal in the Baines family to give surnames of family members as christian names to newborn children, so I think it fairly conclusive that Mary Tuck was the mother of Sarah Baines The surname Dickason/Dickerson/Dickinson does not appear anywhere in the Baines family as far as I can ascertain.

]]> By: Bob Price http://ancestorsofcley.com/2009/11/descendants-of-john-baines-sarah-murrell/comment-page-1/#comment-90 Bob Price Mon, 23 Aug 2010 16:26:50 +0000 http://ancestorsofcley.com/?p=482#comment-90 Looking again at Alisons'comment, If the Sarah Murrell referred to, is the Sarah who married John Baines in 1791 at Blakeney, then I think the data is wrong. Unless I am mistaken, the Sarah Murrell who married John Baines was the dau. of John and Mary (Tuck) Murrell,( m. 3.1.1763-B'ney- B'ney Banns, 1754 -1807 LDS Norfolk Parish Register Images. Im. 4/27 & ) bapt. 24. Feb. 1773. At the time of the marriage, both were stated to be "of this Parish"--Blakeney--. Another pointer is that the marriage took place in Blakeney. the home Parish of the bride. Thus; if Sarahs' home Parish was Necton, her wedding to John Baines would surely have there and not Blakeney. Looking again at Alisons'comment, If the Sarah Murrell referred to, is the Sarah who married John Baines in 1791 at Blakeney, then I think the data is wrong.
Unless I am mistaken, the Sarah Murrell who married John Baines was the dau. of John and Mary (Tuck) Murrell,( m. 3.1.1763-B'ney- B'ney Banns, 1754 -1807 LDS Norfolk Parish Register Images. Im. 4/27 & ) bapt. 24. Feb. 1773. At the time of the marriage, both were stated to be "of this Parish"--Blakeney--. Another pointer is that the marriage took place in Blakeney. the home Parish of the bride. Thus; if Sarahs' home Parish was
Necton, her wedding to John Baines would surely have there and not Blakeney.

]]> By: Bob Price http://ancestorsofcley.com/2009/11/descendants-of-john-baines-sarah-murrell/comment-page-1/#comment-88 Bob Price Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:35:06 +0000 http://ancestorsofcley.com/?p=482#comment-88 Charles "Herbert" was actually Charles Edward, bapt. 6.6.1858. Ref LDS Norfolk Parish Reg. Images, Blakeney Bapts 1840-1902 image 36/82. His father, John Murrell Baines, was only 37 when he died in 1866, his mother Mary--Coppin--died 1872. Although Charles Edward was only 7 at his fathers death, his mother doesn't appear to have remarried--at least not that I can find. The Baines family were well off so probably looked after her and Charles Edward. Charles "Herbert" was actually Charles Edward, bapt. 6.6.1858. Ref LDS Norfolk Parish Reg. Images, Blakeney Bapts 1840-1902 image 36/82. His father, John Murrell Baines, was only 37 when he died in 1866, his mother Mary--Coppin--died 1872. Although Charles Edward was only 7 at his fathers death, his mother doesn't appear to have remarried--at least not that I can find. The Baines family were well off so probably looked after her and Charles Edward.

]]> By: Alison Allan http://ancestorsofcley.com/2009/11/descendants-of-john-baines-sarah-murrell/comment-page-1/#comment-81 Alison Allan Tue, 01 Jun 2010 21:16:09 +0000 http://ancestorsofcley.com/?p=482#comment-81 My great-grandparents were John Murrell Baines and Mary Coppin. They had one son, Charles Herbert Baines. He left Norfolk and moved to Middlesbrough where he married a Mary Scarlett. They had 7 children, Charles (who married Jemima), Clifford, Albert, Joseph William, Thomas and Robert and Bertha Louisa. I knew little of the Baines family history except that my grandfather was thought to have come from Norfolk. As all the other branches of my family are to be found in North Yorkshire, Durham and Scotland this possible link to East Anglia has always been fascinating. We have always wondered about what took Charles Herbert from Norfolk to North Yorkshire other than the opportunities in the iron foundaries of the new town of Middlesbrough attracting many incomers. There is a link between Norfolk fishermen and Filey, Yorkshire so perhaps they also sailed further north to the ports on the Tees and the Durham coast. Sarah Murrell was baptised in 1769 at Necton, her parents were John Murrell and Susanna Dickerson (although this may be Dickson or Dickinson) who were married in 1767 at Holme Hale which is the neighbouring village to Necton. My great-grandparents were John Murrell Baines and Mary Coppin. They had one son, Charles Herbert Baines. He left Norfolk and moved to Middlesbrough where he married a Mary Scarlett. They had 7 children, Charles (who married Jemima), Clifford, Albert, Joseph William, Thomas and Robert and Bertha Louisa. I knew little of the Baines family history except that my grandfather was thought to have come from Norfolk. As all the other branches of my family are to be found in North Yorkshire, Durham and Scotland this possible link to East Anglia has always been fascinating. We have always wondered about what took Charles Herbert from Norfolk to North Yorkshire other than the opportunities in the iron foundaries of the new town of Middlesbrough attracting many incomers. There is a link between Norfolk fishermen and Filey, Yorkshire so perhaps they also sailed further north to the ports on the Tees and the Durham coast.

Sarah Murrell was baptised in 1769 at Necton, her parents were John Murrell and Susanna Dickerson (although this may be Dickson or Dickinson) who were married in 1767 at Holme Hale which is the neighbouring village to Necton.

]]> By: CleyAncestors http://ancestorsofcley.com/2009/11/descendants-of-john-baines-sarah-murrell/comment-page-1/#comment-67 CleyAncestors Mon, 05 Apr 2010 11:47:40 +0000 http://ancestorsofcley.com/?p=482#comment-67 Hi Bob, Do you know if the Francis Baines who married Sarah Ann Jary in Stiffkey in 1842 might have been Francis Murrell Baines, son of William & Mary Claxson Baines? Their family was in Morston at the time of the 1841 census. The only reference for this marriage I have is http://www.genealogy.doun.org/transcriptions/documents.php?district_id=23&document_id=4937 so I don't know who his parents were. I wish I knew the answer to your question regarding Henry Jary's father. The only thing I can think of would be a check of the Great Snoring parish registers for Henry's baptism, but you've probably already done that. Kind regards, Carol Hi Bob,
Do you know if the Francis Baines who married Sarah Ann Jary in Stiffkey in 1842 might have been Francis Murrell Baines, son of William & Mary Claxson Baines? Their family was in Morston at the time of the 1841 census. The only reference for this marriage I have is http://www.genealogy.doun.org/transcriptions/documents.php?district_id=23&document_id=4937 so I don't know who his parents were.
I wish I knew the answer to your question regarding Henry Jary's father. The only thing I can think of would be a check of the Great Snoring parish registers for Henry's baptism, but you've probably already done that.

Kind regards,
Carol

]]> By: Bob Price http://ancestorsofcley.com/2009/11/descendants-of-john-baines-sarah-murrell/comment-page-1/#comment-60 Bob Price Sat, 06 Mar 2010 11:48:36 +0000 http://ancestorsofcley.com/?p=482#comment-60 I also have Murrells in my family tree. Robert Benjamin FOX married Elizabeth MURRELL, at Blakeney, 1st Feb. 1843.Elizabeths parents were Francis M. Murrell, and Margaret Maria, nee CUSHIN--Cushing?) also at Blakeney. Sarah Ann JARY--who married Francis BAINES in 1842--was the sister of Ann Rebecca Jary, unmarried mother of Henry Jary, born 6.July 1847. at Walsingham Union House. ( I have not found a baptism for Henry anywhere.) Although there are the connections to both Baines and Murrell families individually, I have not been able to find a link to the Baines-Murrell family discussed here. Perhaps someone can help with this. On a seperate issue------- Henry Jary married Mary Ann FOX, --daughter of the above Robert Benjamin -- in 1868. In 1881 census, he was in South Shields, as a Boarder with his mother Ann Rebecca , then married--to Henry Futter( or Futton or Potter?) I believe her husband to have been the father of Henry Jary, but how can I substantiate that? best regards Bob Price I also have Murrells in my family tree. Robert Benjamin FOX married Elizabeth MURRELL, at Blakeney, 1st Feb. 1843.Elizabeths parents were Francis M. Murrell, and Margaret Maria, nee CUSHIN--Cushing?) also at Blakeney.
Sarah Ann JARY--who married Francis BAINES in 1842--was the sister of Ann Rebecca Jary, unmarried mother of Henry Jary, born 6.July 1847. at Walsingham Union House.
( I have not found a baptism for Henry anywhere.)
Although there are the connections to both Baines and Murrell families individually, I have not been able to find a link to the Baines-Murrell family discussed here.
Perhaps someone can help with this.
On a seperate issue-------
Henry Jary married Mary Ann FOX, --daughter of the above Robert Benjamin -- in 1868.
In 1881 census, he was in South Shields, as a Boarder with his mother Ann Rebecca , then married--to Henry Futter( or Futton or Potter?) I believe her husband to have been the father of Henry Jary, but how can I substantiate that?

best regards
Bob Price

]]> By: CleyAncestors http://ancestorsofcley.com/2009/11/descendants-of-john-baines-sarah-murrell/comment-page-1/#comment-51 CleyAncestors Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:18:12 +0000 http://ancestorsofcley.com/?p=482#comment-51 Hello Caroline, That's certainly a very interesting quote on the inscription. Have you been to the History Centre of the <a href="http://www.history-blakeney-area.org.uk/" rel="nofollow">Blakeney Area Historical Society</a>? I reckon if anyone can tell you whether that was the same John Baines, and what the inscription referred to, it's Pamela Peake. In fact, I'm just looking at the article about local mariners that Pam wrote in <em>The Glaven Historian</em> (Volume 7; 2004. <em>"The Highs and Lows of living in Blakeney"</em>). Pamela mentions the memorials in the Blakeney churchyard as being of "three generations of master mariners" starting with John Baines, d. 1844. Murrell Baines (your John Murrell Baines's father, I believe) is mentioned as being one of John's sons, but it doesn't appear that either he or his son John Murrell Baines have a memorial in the churchyard. The article focuses on the master mariners in the family, but there is also interesting information on other members of the Baines family (and I wish I'd remembered we had this when I made the chart). If you can't make it to the History Centre while you're there, Crabpot Books in Cley probably has it. I hope you enjoy your holiday in Norfolk! Kind regards, Carol Dew Hello Caroline,

That's certainly a very interesting quote on the inscription. Have you been to the History Centre of the Blakeney Area Historical Society? I reckon if anyone can tell you whether that was the same John Baines, and what the inscription referred to, it's Pamela Peake.

In fact, I'm just looking at the article about local mariners that Pam wrote in The Glaven Historian (Volume 7; 2004. "The Highs and Lows of living in Blakeney"). Pamela mentions the memorials in the Blakeney churchyard as being of "three generations of master mariners" starting with John Baines, d. 1844. Murrell Baines (your John Murrell Baines's father, I believe) is mentioned as being one of John's sons, but it doesn't appear that either he or his son John Murrell Baines have a memorial in the churchyard.

The article focuses on the master mariners in the family, but there is also interesting information on other members of the Baines family (and I wish I'd remembered we had this when I made the chart). If you can't make it to the History Centre while you're there, Crabpot Books in Cley probably has it.

I hope you enjoy your holiday in Norfolk!

Kind regards,
Carol Dew

]]> By: Caroline Morton http://ancestorsofcley.com/2009/11/descendants-of-john-baines-sarah-murrell/comment-page-1/#comment-46 Caroline Morton Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:04:10 +0000 http://ancestorsofcley.com/?p=482#comment-46 Recently, I have been tracing my Blakeney ancestors and I found the table showing the descendants of John Baines and Sarah Murrell on this site very useful. We visited St Nicholas Blakeney graveyard last year and took photos. I have now discovered that nearly all the Baines graves we saw are those of my distant ancestors via John Murrell Baines ( born 1829 died aged 37 in 1866 of TB ), my great great grandfather, although I didn't find his grave. Also, according to the Baines/Murrell family tree, John Murrell Baines' grandfather was John Baines who was born in approx. 1766. There is a grave of a master mariner John Baines at Blakeney who died aged 76 in 1844. It has an interesting inscription starting "He troublesome to some became". Because the dates more or less match up, I wondered if this was my great great great great grandfather, husband of Sarah Murrell, and what he did to merit this! We're on holiday in Norfolk from 20th to 27th February and will have another look. Regards, Caroline Morton Recently, I have been tracing my Blakeney ancestors and I found the table showing the descendants of John Baines and Sarah Murrell on this site very useful. We visited St Nicholas Blakeney graveyard last year and took photos. I have now discovered that nearly all the Baines graves we saw are those of my distant ancestors via John Murrell Baines ( born 1829 died aged 37 in 1866 of TB ), my great great grandfather, although I didn't find his grave. Also, according to the Baines/Murrell family tree, John Murrell Baines' grandfather was John Baines who was born in approx. 1766. There is a grave of a master mariner John Baines at Blakeney who died aged 76 in 1844. It has an interesting inscription starting "He troublesome to some became". Because the dates more or less match up, I wondered if this was my great great great great grandfather, husband of Sarah Murrell, and what he did to merit this! We're on holiday in Norfolk from 20th to 27th February and will have another look.
Regards,
Caroline Morton

]]> By: CleyAncestors http://ancestorsofcley.com/2009/11/descendants-of-john-baines-sarah-murrell/comment-page-1/#comment-45 CleyAncestors Sun, 31 Jan 2010 15:14:31 +0000 http://ancestorsofcley.com/?p=482#comment-45 Dear Barbara, I wrote the article & made the diagram with information from the Blakeney parish registers & censuses, but I thank you for the compliment of thinking it may have been Pam's work. I consider that high praise, as her research is amazing, and she's been very helpful to us as well. Since posting this article, we've received more microfilms, completing our collection of the Blakeney & Cley parish registers, and I've been going through them slowly, making notes on familiar names. Here's what I've found so far on the Baines family in Cley: (please keep in mind I have probably missed some!) <strong>Cley next the Sea General Register 1686-1744 (NRO PD270 MF694/19)</strong> <em>Burials</em> 1735 Anne Daughter of Henry Baines Bur[ie]d 9th Decemb[e]r 1738 No. 1; Frances Daug[hte]r of Robert & Mary Baynes 8th April <em>Christenings</em> 1738 Henry Son of Robert & Mary Baines 28th Jan[uary] <strong>Cley next the Sea General Register 1744-1779 (NRO PD270 MF 694/20)</strong> <em>Burials</em> 1757 Robert Baynes gent[leman] was bur[ie]d Nov[embe]r 6th. I know it's not a lot, but I'll continue to keep an eye out as I go through the registers. Also, I haven't been through the earlier registers in detail yet, because 1) the writing is very small and our film reader is a bit fiddly when it comes to lens changes, and 2) I'm not great at reading Latin. Kind regards, Carol Dew Dear Barbara,

I wrote the article & made the diagram with information from the Blakeney parish registers & censuses, but I thank you for the compliment of thinking it may have been Pam's work. I consider that high praise, as her research is amazing, and she's been very helpful to us as well.

Since posting this article, we've received more microfilms, completing our collection of the Blakeney & Cley parish registers, and I've been going through them slowly, making notes on familiar names. Here's what I've found so far on the Baines family in Cley: (please keep in mind I have probably missed some!)

Cley next the Sea General Register 1686-1744 (NRO PD270 MF694/19)

Burials

1735
Anne Daughter of Henry Baines Bur[ie]d 9th Decemb[e]r

1738
No. 1; Frances Daug[hte]r of Robert & Mary Baynes 8th April

Christenings

1738 Henry Son of Robert & Mary Baines 28th Jan[uary]

Cley next the Sea General Register 1744-1779 (NRO PD270 MF 694/20)

Burials

1757
Robert Baynes gent[leman] was bur[ie]d Nov[embe]r 6th.

I know it's not a lot, but I'll continue to keep an eye out as I go through the registers. Also, I haven't been through the earlier registers in detail yet, because 1) the writing is very small and our film reader is a bit fiddly when it comes to lens changes, and 2) I'm not great at reading Latin.

Kind regards,
Carol Dew

]]> By: Barbara de ridder http://ancestorsofcley.com/2009/11/descendants-of-john-baines-sarah-murrell/comment-page-1/#comment-44 Barbara de ridder Sun, 31 Jan 2010 04:36:16 +0000 http://ancestorsofcley.com/?p=482#comment-44 Delighted to find this article regarding Baines. Written by Pam Peake?? I ask this as in the past I have been in contact with Pam re the de Ridder (De Redder) - Baines connection. In 2005 she gave myself and cousins a wonderful guided tour of Blakeney. A day I will always will treasure. I would love to discuss this article as I have done research on the Baines De Redder(de Ridder) family histories. One question: In Jonathon Hooton's 'The Glave Ports' page160 -- letter sent by 42 merchants in Cley ----5th Sept 1728 --- complaints regarding offical quays --- future all imports and exports to be handled at a new quay belonging to Mr Baynes, which had lately been erected. Do you know of any records of early Cley, mentioning this family of Baynes (Baines) ? Sincerely, Barb de Ridder, NZ. Delighted to find this article regarding Baines. Written by Pam Peake??
I ask this as in the past I have been in contact with Pam re the de Ridder (De Redder) - Baines connection. In 2005 she gave myself and cousins a wonderful guided tour of Blakeney. A day I will always will treasure.
I would love to discuss this article as I have done research on the Baines De Redder(de Ridder) family histories.
One question: In Jonathon Hooton's 'The Glave Ports' page160 -- letter sent by 42 merchants in Cley ----5th Sept 1728 --- complaints regarding offical quays --- future all imports and exports to be handled at a new quay belonging to Mr Baynes, which had lately been erected. Do you know of any records of early Cley, mentioning this family of Baynes (Baines) ? Sincerely, Barb de Ridder, NZ.

]]>